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Συνεδρίαση 17 Ιανουαρίου 2007, Βρυξέλλες

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Meeting of ACE Work group on Cost Information Systems, WG-CIS
ACE offices, Brussels on Wednesday 17 January 2007

Present :

Apologies for absence:

Welcome

New members: Tonu Laigu from Estonia, was welcomed to the work group.
Comments on previous minutes
No comments were made. 
Follow up to the 13 dec Conference by the Commission, DG comp.
Alain Sagne and Wolfgang Haack gave an update of relations between ACE and DG comp, following the conference "regulation in professional services" held on 13 Dec 06.
Proceedings were commented and the web page address given for access to further information.
http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition/sectors/professional_services/conferences/20061230/index.html

CIS in Austria and in Finland

Kimmo Limatainen and Johannes Schmidt gave presentations giving the background to the situation as it is in their own country.
Kimmo presented the work input survey used in Finland. This is a constantly updated, online system that collects historical data on projects in practices that volunteer to contribute. At present, the system is based on 585 projects over a five-year period, covering the size of projects, the total fees of each architect’s appointment, equivalent hourly rates charges and, for comparison, construction costs. Results chart total man/hours against the M2 surface areas of projects for five building types. They can be used, very simply, to evaluate the total amount of work needed for any given project.
Johannes explained that an online questionnaire was planned in Austria. Recent developments, after pressure from competition authorities, are considered as positive and an opportunity for improvement on fee scales that are of uncertain origin. A new resource based structure of CIS is in the making, with four modules planned for march 2007, including:
- diagrams showing resource requirements in bandwidths,
- a standard scope of work,
- software tools,
- commentary;
It time, a user manual and standard architects appointments with common business conditions, will be added.
In discussions, Johannes invited the work group to hold the next meeting in Austria. As Austrian architects have been forced to abandon fee scales as of 31 December 2006, this would be a good opportunity to find out how work undertaken by the group could be useful to member organisations.
Task WGCost-1, 
Identification of information sources for CIS and analysis of existing best practice
For the Work Group's Task 1, the group has produced a draft report analysing the situation in each country represented by members of the work group.
The draft report was discussed at the meeting and an action list devised to produce a second draft for appraisal by the ACE executive board. Wolfgang Haack agreed to report progress to the Board meeting on 19 and 20 January.
The following actions were decided:
The first draft will be issued to Pierre-Henri Schmutz (ACE coordinator thematic area 2), for comment.
If they wish, WG members will revise their contributions over the next ten days,
Tonu Laigu will send a contribution from Estonia,
Kataria Keplec will devise a list of words and concepts to form a glossary,
The introduction will be revised and conclusions written for issue to WG members for comment,
The section on economic and business environment will be repositioned in each text for coherence.
Joe Miller will assist Philip Ridgway to edit the document and achieve greater clarity,
A recommendation will be made to the executive board to issue the final document to member organisations, with a call for additional contributions.
ACTION: All WG members. For: 15 February 2007 (issue of 2nd draft to EB)
Task WGCost-2, The structuring of cost information
Johannes Schmidt commented his powerpoint presentation on this topic as a preamble to task 2 whereby the group has been requested to:
“evaluate whether it is possible to produce one or more harmonised systems and assess the advantages and disadvantages of such systems”.
In his presentation, Johannes insisted on the quality targets of the Lisbon agenda stating that CIS tools should enable the economic stability of small practices and the production of good architecture. His view, shared by the work group, is that the principle of subsidiarity applies to CIS with the need to continue to devise appropriate systems on a national level. However, some important aspects of practice are common to architects across Europe, such as the tradition of a full service, covering all work stages.
In the discussion that ensued the idea of a ACE CIS template was developed, to be structured with three elements:
A survey based assessment of work input required on different types and sizes of projects.
A catalogue of performances or scope of works.
A standard method to calculate fees.  
As a first step towards WG task 2, a short questionnaire will be circulated to all WG members so that individual views on such harmonised systems can be collected and put down on paper for review.
ACTION: All WG members. For: 15 February 2007

CIS in Switzerland

On several occasions, CIS in Switzerland has been put forward as worthy of appraisal. Johannes Schmidt agreed to invite a Swiss member to explain the Swiss perspective at the next WG meeting in Austria. Philip Ridgway will check the idea with Pierre-Henri Schmutz.
ACTION: Johannes Schmidt, Philip Ridgway       For: Next meeting

Forum on ACE web site

When possible, the powerpoint presentations made to the group will be placed on the Forum.
Stephan Stouffs and Kimmo Limatainen agreed to discuss with the ACE secretariat after the meeting to find ways to make the forum more friendly and easier to use. It was thought, for instance, that an access code was not necessary.

Next meeting

23 February 07 from 10.30 to 16.30 in Innsbruck, with dinner for the WG on the evening before.
Post meeting note: due to school holidays in some countries that week, the date of the meeting is changed to 2 march with dinner on 1 march. The dinner and the meeting will be held in VIENNA for ease of access by plane.
4 may is suggested for the meeting after that. To be confirmed.

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